tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11805401.post116416144923807982..comments2024-03-16T08:21:16.037-04:00Comments on The DiaTribe: Making Sense of NonsensePaul Cousineauhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03490622970961409253noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11805401.post-1164390918450425152006-11-24T12:55:00.000-05:002006-11-24T12:55:00.000-05:00browns throwbacks sunday. check it!browns throwbacks sunday. <BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/article.php?id=6148" REL="nofollow">check it</A>!t-bonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07557582144953901789noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11805401.post-1164299753253582742006-11-23T11:35:00.000-05:002006-11-23T11:35:00.000-05:00The 4A level/bench player comment was a little exc...The 4A level/bench player comment was a little excessive.<BR/><BR/>Juan Pierre WOULD look great at the top of this lineup, it's the money and the length that are the issues for me.<BR/><BR/>Happy Turkey Day everyone!Paul Cousineauhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03490622970961409253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11805401.post-1164296944454989722006-11-23T10:49:00.000-05:002006-11-23T10:49:00.000-05:00Well, Willie Mays Hayes started going yard when he...Well, Willie Mays Hayes started going yard when he started getting older. Maybe Pierre will too<BR/><BR/>Seriously though, "On a good team, he's a bench player -- even at his current level of ability". Mr. Law just lost all credibility with me. The guy's numbers speak for themself. And he did bat leadoff for a World Series Champion.<BR/><BR/>Unless we are going to spend that money where it needs to go, the bullpen or extending some of our studs, I feel its money well spent.<BR/><BR/>Anyway, have a good turkey day.Cy Slapnickahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10109399114263980881noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11805401.post-1164296931688204532006-11-23T10:48:00.000-05:002006-11-23T10:48:00.000-05:00Well, Willie Mays Hayes started going yard when he...Well, Willie Mays Hayes started going yard when he started getting older. Maybe Pierre will too<BR/><BR/>Seriously though, "On a good team, he's a bench player -- even at his current level of ability". Mr. Law just lost all credibility with me. The guy's numbers speak for themself. And he did bat leadoff for a World Series Champion.<BR/><BR/>Unless we are going to spend that money where it needs to go, the bullpen or extending some of our studs, I feel its money well spent.<BR/><BR/>Anyway, have a good turkey day.Cy Slapnickahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10109399114263980881noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11805401.post-1164295838471287902006-11-23T10:30:00.000-05:002006-11-23T10:30:00.000-05:00I know we would like to see some money thrown arou...I know we would like to see some money thrown around, even if it means overpaying for it, but $9M for Pierre? <BR/><BR/>Number of years aside, that's a huge chunk of change, rivaled only by the Angels giving $10M per to a 31-year-old player who has never hit over .275, had more than 17 HR, 55 RBI, or 15 SB prior to last year (coincidentally, a contract year).<BR/><BR/>On the Pierre front, how about this from ESPN.com's Keith Law:<BR/>"Pierre is a slap-hitting speedster who has drawn 50 walks in a season just once in his career (2003), and whose above-average range in center is mitigated somewhat by his below-average throwing arm. His primary asset, his ability to run, is generally the first skill to decline as a player ages, and since Pierre turns 30 in August, he's headed quickly towards the edge of the cliff. On a good team, he's a bench player -- even at his current level of ability; if he can't run, he's a 4A player. The fact that the Dodgers just committed five years and what will probably be way too much money to a player whose ideal role is "defensive replacement/pinch runner" is mind-boggling. It's almost certain that Pierre will bat first or second in the Dodgers' lineup (you don't bat a $9 million player eighth, even if that's where he belongs) and those 500-odd outs he makes every year will go a long way towards holding the Dodgers' offense down."<BR/><BR/>As for me, $9 better bring about 20 quality starts and 12-15 wins from the rotation.<BR/><BR/>Call me old fashioned, but I think it's a mistake to get tied up in this FA lunacy and overpay for a player that we could get comparable (not identical) numbers for a much lower figure.<BR/><BR/>Spend the money on extending the guys that SHOULD stick around or adding more arms.Paul Cousineauhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03490622970961409253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11805401.post-1164263602555199272006-11-23T01:33:00.000-05:002006-11-23T01:33:00.000-05:00speaking of being on board, i'm completely on boar...speaking of being on board, i'm completely on board with all of cy's comments on the pierre topic. maybe not that long of a contract, but i'd have no problem throwing $9 mil at him.t-bonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07557582144953901789noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11805401.post-1164262873042100162006-11-23T01:21:00.000-05:002006-11-23T01:21:00.000-05:00How is my comparison ridiculous? Look at the numb...How is my comparison ridiculous? Look at the numbers. I'm not sure how Juan's defense is but their numbers are very close. If you offered me a good defensive OF right now that produced like Pierre for $9mil, i'd take it.<BR/><BR/>Is Michaels undervalued based on what we've seen in free agency this year? Yes, but its so insane recently that Josh Bard could command a big long term deal. The Matthews deal proves that.<BR/><BR/>OBP, SLG, & OPS are similar for Michaels and Pierre, but those 58 SBs are huge. Pierre is on base roughly 235 times last year based on walks and hits. Almost 50 of those are XBHs. Lets guestimate and say that 40 of his stolen bases were from 1B, putting him in scoring position. I know this is all very rough, but that puts him in scoring position around 40% of the time he gets on base. And he has the speed to score from anywhere.<BR/><BR/>Put him at the top of our lineup, and I guarantee his stats improve dramatically.<BR/><BR/>I think you forget what Lofton brought to the lineup. Pierre can bring the same thing. Given current market conditions, if I offered you a 1995 Kenny Lofton for $9mil, are you buying? He's even about the same age as Lofton was back then. Have you seen his stats the past few years? Oh, and I think the last time he missed a game, Butch Davis wasn't known for ruining drafts. And he's not even a prick like Lofton was/is.<BR/><BR/>I see your point, that some of the guys that we have are average, and they are signed for reasonable salaries. In the current market, that makes them valuable. I just feel that if we were going to spend some cash in the CURRENT MARKET (which by the way, is the only market that matters) on an OF, Pierre would be worth $9mil.<BR/><BR/>Especially in our division. Anything we can do to make AJ's life more hellish, I'm on board with....Cy Slapnickahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10109399114263980881noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11805401.post-1164255645117546242006-11-22T23:20:00.000-05:002006-11-22T23:20:00.000-05:00KevinV,I think that your contract numbers are righ...KevinV,<BR/>I think that your contract numbers are right on and those 3 players, in particular, and the way that their contracts are handled is going to be the best indication on the ownership and payroll.<BR/><BR/>There's one thing to be said for going out and getting someone else's players - there's always a little more inherent risk. <BR/><BR/>Keeping your own, for market value, is what this team needs to do - particularly with the young talent that is 1 or 2 years away from the open market.<BR/><BR/>Like you said, I hope you're wrong that the Indians won't pay these players the going rate...but we will see.Paul Cousineauhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03490622970961409253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11805401.post-1164229882198990812006-11-22T16:11:00.000-05:002006-11-22T16:11:00.000-05:00That Matthews deal is shocking...just shocking. I...That Matthews deal is shocking...just shocking. <BR/><BR/>If that's the big splash that Arte Moreno promised, that deafening sound you hear is silence.Paul Cousineauhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03490622970961409253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11805401.post-1164226905667985722006-11-22T15:21:00.000-05:002006-11-22T15:21:00.000-05:00But is that "mayhem on the bases" worth $9M a year...But is that "mayhem on the bases" worth $9M a year...or really that much more than an average OF (Michaels).<BR/><BR/>Michaels and Pierre had IDENTICAL OBP, SLG, & OPS last year.<BR/><BR/>Your comparison to Pierre and Lofton circa 1995 is even more ridiculous than the Dodgers giving Pierre his deal.<BR/><BR/>The point that if Pierre is worth $9M, then Michaels must be worth than what we think he is (not much) must have flown over your head.<BR/><BR/>Would I rather have Pierre, as opposed to Michaels? Absolutely.<BR/><BR/>But that wasn't the point of the comparison. The inflated values of the contract being handed out was.Paul Cousineauhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03490622970961409253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11805401.post-1164221352501195432006-11-22T13:49:00.000-05:002006-11-22T13:49:00.000-05:00btw, i mean "worth a cool million..." not worse.btw, i mean "worth a cool million..." not worse.Cy Slapnickahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10109399114263980881noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11805401.post-1164221325558419442006-11-22T13:48:00.000-05:002006-11-22T13:48:00.000-05:00One more thing I forgot. He also wears a crooked ...One more thing I forgot. He also wears a crooked cap. Thats worse a cool millon a year right there....<BR/><BR/>I still can't believe you wrote that. I am beside myself. If we were talking about this over a pint, I'd spitting as I spoke (big shocker) and calling the Baltimorian to discuss how we'd go bananas.Cy Slapnickahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10109399114263980881noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11805401.post-1164221070432393062006-11-22T13:44:00.000-05:002006-11-22T13:44:00.000-05:00I assume you are just trying to get some responses...I assume you are just trying to get some responses, b/c your comparison of Pierre, Frank, and Michaels is insanity.<BR/><BR/>They are completely different types of players. Can you imagine batting Pierre leadoff in our lineup, followed by some combination of Grady, Hafner, and Victor? He is a constant threat to steal and based on his numbers, is probably in scoring position ~40% of the time...so I think he'd have quite a few more runs. And would you like to be a pitcher with him on base? He brings a completely different dimension to the game, its not just stolen bases. <BR/><BR/>Compared to Michaels and the Tank's projected numbers, they currently have average to below average power, lots of K's, and neither has proven to be a legitimate full time player, so projecting their numbers out isn't even realistic!<BR/><BR/>Do they have value, yes. Is there any relation between their values and Pierre's? No. He completely changes a pitchers approach, sets the table for your offense, and has tons of energy. Its like the 1995 version of Lofton.<BR/><BR/>Basically, I think you just tried to justify Paul Sorrento having a lot of value by comparing him to Lofton.<BR/><BR/>Lay off the pipe my man...Cy Slapnickahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10109399114263980881noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11805401.post-1164168819814591852006-11-21T23:13:00.000-05:002006-11-21T23:13:00.000-05:00As much as I'd like to believe that they're saving...As much as I'd like to believe that they're saving the money to extend our top of the line guys, I don't see it happeneing. <BR/><BR/>Westbrook will be traded because he is determined to explore his options in Free Agency. The indians will not give him the 4-5 ywar 40-50M contract that he will be able to get. I hope Shapiro can work out another Colon type deal for Westbrook because there is no way he is back in 2008.<BR/><BR/>Shapiro does not have a history of paying people at market prices. I very much doubt that we will plunk down 15M/year each that it will take to hold on to CC and Pronk. I really hope I'm wrong, but i doubt it. <BR/><BR/>So while I understand that reasonable contracts to people like Roberto Hernandez or Joe Borowski make sense, I just get the sense that we're coming up short again. <BR/><BR/>I think that we're going to be left with money to burn again with no one on whom to burn it. I'm tired of having a flexible, non-burdensome payroll and not having the right players to get job done.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com