tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11805401.post8456371992089647230..comments2024-03-16T08:21:16.037-04:00Comments on The DiaTribe: Two Game TomahawksPaul Cousineauhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03490622970961409253noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11805401.post-38932959737532762342010-04-11T22:09:02.535-04:002010-04-11T22:09:02.535-04:00i am raining down sympathy on the have nots in bas...i am raining down sympathy on the have nots in baseball, as they are men of money and made their bed. i am just frustrated with what it means for something i enjoyed, indians baseball.<br /><br />regarding the forbes numbers, i question the validity of them, especially the decision to exclude cable networks from the numbers. the yankees can afford to lose money b/c the same company also owns YES, which makes a killing due to the team. i'm sure they're not losing money in NY.<br /><br />if we had financials that truly represented the financial situation of the teams, as well as reasonably accurate forecasts of their future, then i think the conversation could be had. but given the way those numbers are figured, i don't know that it is reasonable to determine cheapskate owners based on them (although i don't dubt they exist). also, i don't believe these numbers are figuring in things like long term contracts. do they take into account player X being owed $100M in the next 5 years? all in all, i don't trust the numbers. forbes is trying to sell magazines and ad space, not find the true value of mlb franchises.<br /><br />and finally, i don't attribute ownership wealth to how much they should spend on players. if that wealth is not part of the revenue stream of their club, it shouldn't be figured into how much they spend on players. Illitch isn't a hero for losing money in Detroit. He is a cautionary tale about what happens when you try and outspend the "haves".Cy Slapnickahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10109399114263980881noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11805401.post-47893837045789280902010-04-11T18:09:46.760-04:002010-04-11T18:09:46.760-04:00Cy,
I think we agree in the end that mlb is brok...Cy, <br /><br />I think we agree in the end that mlb is broken but just differ in our way of getting there.<br /><br />Maybe my liberal arts education has it that I believe these guys got to be as rich as they are precisely because they are willing to pocket money at any chance they get quality of product and integrity of industry be damned.<br /><br />An aside, hasn't it already gotten out that baseball as an industry is making money and every team is making money even our "poor poor" Indians and one of the largest money makers are the "paupers" of MLB the Florida Marlins.<br /><br />Anyway we don't have the financial info but we do have a couple of things from forbes to perhaps look at that jives with what I was trying to state, perhaps not so well.<br /><br />Check this:<br /><br />http://www.bizofbaseball.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=3639:sixty-six-of-forbes-richest-list-are-sports-investors&catid=26:editorials&Itemid=39<br /><br />Look at Mike Illitch worth 1.4 Billion and Steinbrenner worth 1.15 Billion. These guys are both billionaires and spend their money on the players in a broken system. But what about Ted Lerner worth 3 Billion owning the Nationals. Do I think that Ted Lerner should spend money on players in the same way that I add and drop players in my fantasy league? Of course these guys are businessmen and make decisions like businessmen. <br /><br />I guess the whole of what I was saying is that precisely because they bought into this broken system and they are billionaires they shouldn't be allowed to get away with complaining about not being able to re-sign Prince Fielder or as the dialogue goes further and the next collective bargaining agreement gets worked out to complain about the players which is most likely what will happen.<br /><br />But yes its broken and I increasing find myself in your position that Paul quoted in his post today (Sunday). But lets not have sympathy or understand or make excuses for the billionaires!Wah00kidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13504096480224471859noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11805401.post-33599959931033429632010-04-09T14:16:58.100-04:002010-04-09T14:16:58.100-04:00wahoo, did you go to a liberal arts school? how c...wahoo, did you go to a liberal arts school? how can you fault dolan? or any owner of mid to small market teams? these guys are running businesses, not playing fantasy baseball. their objective is to make money. maybe they made a bad investment by choosing mlb as their investment vehicle or invested with their hearts instead of their brains, but the bottom line is, they try to make money. doing so is a balancing act of trying to field a competitive team and controlling costs.<br /><br />i find it hard to believe they are all sitting there raking in cash from revenue sharing, making a nice tidy profit, and not legitimately attempting to improve the team. maybe there are a couple owners like this, but most know that gravy train would end if they all did it. while none of the team financials are available and we cannot verify this, i suspect decisions are being made by a business, not the Indians fan club that wants to see Thome and Victor retire Indians. as tempting as that may be for owners like the dolans.<br /><br />a smart business with limited funds will realize that a exorbitant price (guaranteed) for a piece of equipment (player) that will break down or perform worse over time, with no warranty or way to get their money back when this happens is foolish. i'm not sure how much they collect from insurance when someone gets hurt or how they do, but i'd bet they are paying most if not all of westbrooks money. their return on investment is zero. and the opportunity cost related to that money causes them to lose money.<br /><br />and i don't think anyone is calling the players greedy. it is in their best interest to maximize their value and happiness. and some even forgo happiness for more money. while i used to be foolish and blame them, if someone offers me a lot more money to work somewhere else, i'm asking when they want me to start. unless of course the work environment i have is awesome or i live near family or stuff like that. (see Giles or Mauer)<br /><br />from a business standpoint, Pohlad would be wise to sell out the park for a couple years, wait out the economy and then sell for a boatload of cash like jacobs did. however, i'm guessing people will have learned from the mistake the dolans made and value the organization at its actual value, not past performance.<br /><br />and if i'm wrong, and it gets out that many of these teams are raking in cash and doing nothing to make their teams better when they have the financial means to do so and mlb knows it and does nothing, you can bet that it will destroy mlb as we know it. i would never give them another dime.<br /><br />if you wanna cuss ownership groups for just raking and not trying to improve their product, look a a few blocks North.<br /><br />in mlb, its the system is broken.Cy Slapnickahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10109399114263980881noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11805401.post-65980929029409735852010-04-09T11:39:23.485-04:002010-04-09T11:39:23.485-04:00Great discussion and I couldn't agree more wit...Great discussion and I couldn't agree more with your rundown on the Brewers Yanks battle.<br /><br />One thing I worry about which doesn't seem to have happened here but needs to be avoided should teams like the Brewers or Indians start complaining is to blame Fielder.<br /><br />I reference this article:<br /><br />http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/who-wants-to-subsidize-a-billionaire/<br /><br />That article is why I don't begrudge C.C. signing with the Yankees, even though I hated it. I fault Larry Dolan or any billionaire owner for not spending the money.<br /><br />Millions are huge to me, maybe less huge if you already have made millions playing baseball, but they surely are even that much less huge to billionaire owners.<br /><br />So should the conversation that is in its early stages of small and mid-market teams and the behemoths turn against "greedy" "unloyal" players then its going down the wrong path!Wah00kidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13504096480224471859noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11805401.post-85242914070940241312010-04-08T15:17:54.484-04:002010-04-08T15:17:54.484-04:00the sad part is, by the time they (mlb) get their ...the sad part is, by the time they (mlb) get their act together, i (and many like me) likely won't care anymore.<br /><br />i passed on free front row seats behind 1B this year for the Indians/Sox opener. i could've gone, but actively chose not to. thats absurd to even write, its like a fat kid passing on ice cream. i'm the same guy that drove back from chicago for 3 different games in the 07 playoffs and sat through the season ending sweep in 05. passing on a built in excuse to skip work on a 70F day and watch the indians from awesome seats?<br /><br />i don't know the team anymore (mostly) and am not nearly as excited in years past at getting to know them. its not like the early to mid 2000s or early 90s for me. i've grown tired of this process and clearly understand it is due to a bunch of millionaires (and billionaires) not being able to share and play together. in the past i saw organizational decisions as organizational BASEBALL decisions. now i understand they are mostly financial decisions infused with SOME baseball logic. i almost lost my mind when we traded baerga. i defended it when we traded victor.<br /><br />i can only assume i'm not alone. baseball can't afford to lose fans like me. i regularly attend games, i buy their merchandise, i sign up for the baseball tv package, i follow the team year round. this is the first year where i really feel like this. and as each small to mid-market team goes through their rebuilding cycle, more will join my ranks. and by the time mlb gets their act together, we may have found other things to do with our summers.<br /><br />i'm not a front runner or a guy that needs to root for a bunch of big names. hell, one of my favorite players is Grudzielanek, just b/c i met him mom and she was nice and they are from the midwest. but i look at the indians roster now and don't think i'd be able to pick out 3/4 of it from a police lineup and don't care about half of it. either b/c i know they are gone in a couple years or are just roster fodder while we look for the next batch of talented players.Cy Slapnickahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10109399114263980881noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11805401.post-54292377792630505572010-04-08T14:55:02.082-04:002010-04-08T14:55:02.082-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Cy Slapnickahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10109399114263980881noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11805401.post-65312595917946093672010-04-08T11:07:32.542-04:002010-04-08T11:07:32.542-04:00Amen. Baseball is eating itself with this problem...Amen. Baseball is eating itself with this problem.<br /><br />Note the disingenous arrogance of Randy Levine, where he refers to Mark Attanasio as "my friend," then rips him for being unable to compete with the Yankee franchise.<br /><br />Some fans complain about how "cheap' Dolan is, when we are locked into contracts that blew up on us (Hafner, Westbrook, and Wood) in the middle of a drawn-out recession.<br /><br />It's my contention that we have a FIRST CLASS Major League Franchise being run in Cleveland.<br /><br />I don't agree with everything that's been done, but I definitely understand it.<br /><br />Sorry if I went off topic.Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00250692498856757151noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11805401.post-57085469142076394632010-04-08T08:27:15.975-04:002010-04-08T08:27:15.975-04:00When I saw "Rod Nichols" in print, the f...When I saw "Rod Nichols" in print, the first thing I thought about was that '89 Topps card... which you then linked to a paragraph later.<br /><br />Fantastic.<br /><br />p.s. if my math is correct, the last time the Tribe was .500 was the last day of the 2008 season.t-bonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07557582144953901789noreply@blogger.com